Deep-Dish Pizza: Round 2

by Nick Kindelsperger on April 3, 2009

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I was determined not to fail this time.  My last attempt at deep-dish wasn't an absolute failure, but it was close.  It was too soggy and messy, and had none of the glorious qualities that my favorite Chicago pizzeria, Pequods, displayed.  I theorized about all kinds reasons for the failure, thinking it had something to do with the crust.  Then I just gave up and asked you all to help me.  Ended up I was way off.  As a commenter rightly pointed out, Pequods isn't actually deep-dish:  "Pequod's is really more of a pan pizza (thick crust on the bottom) with the ingredients in reverse on top like a deep dish."  Say what?

Then came this video starring Hillary from Chew On That.  She interviewed a very large gentlemen at Lou Malnati's where he says "Actually deep-dish pizza has a fairly thin bottom, it's just a high crust." 

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After I realized my mistake things started to make sense.  While I had been searching after a flaky and relatively thick crust, deep dish should actually have a thin and sturdy bottom so it can hold up all those ingredients.  So it was back to zero and determined to figure out what exactly deep-dish should be.  It was kind of sad, because I had to let Pequods go.  I will return, oh yes I will.  But for now I turned my sights to this Chicago classic to see if I could at least nail this one down. 

I don't love deep-dish with anywhere near the same kind of fervor as New York style.  But I was fascinated by it.  While New York style needs a mad hot industrial oven to attain perfection, deep-dish just needs a standard one.  I've found ways to cheat to get New York style, but I should be able to make a deep-dish pie at home that could equal or surpass anything I find in a restaurant. 

All I needed was a recipe.  Luckily, commenters recommended one person over and over again. Peter Reinhart wrote a book called American Pie and had a very detailed recipe for deep-dish and it seemed to address many of the issues I had with it. 

Of course, I was wrong about the dough.  It was basically the same as the kind I used last time.  How I used the dough, however, did change.

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The dough is rolled out until it is very thin. 

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Instead of using a cast iron skillet, he recommended a cake pan, which I found completely ludicrous at first.  It was much smaller than my cast iron skillet, at about 8 1/12 inches wide.  But Abby said that cake pans tend to all be the same.  So I guess this makes sense.  It certainly works and I think it conducts heat faster, allowing for a better, crispier crust.   

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Once the dough is dropped on top, it is pricked with a fork all over, much like a pie.  And then the crust is par-baked for about five minutes until set.  Only then is the cheese and sauce added.  This would hopefully address my issue of the droopy pizza. 

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The last thing you can say about this pizza is that it is droppy.  It was firm and crunchy and remarkably good.  I wish it had a little more give, and I probably didn't put near enough ingredients on.  But, in the end, I have to say I was really impressed with this. 

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This recipe will actually be enough for two 8 1/2 inch pizzas.  So I took that as an excuse to experiment and try two different kinds of cheese.  One had generic dry mozzarella and one had fresh.  I was worried about the wet mozzarella leaking out all over the place and destroying the pizza.  But the kind I made with dry was really bad.  It had absolutely no flavor.  I'm sure there are really good dry mozzarellas out there that would work but I just loved the fresh mozzarella, and will definitely use it again next time. 

And I think I will definitely make this again.  it's a lot easier than the broiler method, and produced a really delicious pizza.  Next time I'd love to experiment with different topping.  Surely my homemade Italian sausage would be a good place to start.  I've also been thinking a lot of this spinach and broccoli pie at had at Uno's a while back.  

I didn't quite reach the perfection that I had hoped for, but I think that was too much to ask.  Chicago deep-dish is all about comfort and this certainly fit the bill. 

Deep-Dish Pizza

Adapted from Peter Reinhart's American Pie
And from When Harry Met Salad

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  • 2 cups all purpose flour
  • 1/3 cup yellow corn meal
  • 1 tablespoon sugar
  • 1 1/4 teaspoons kosher salt
  • 1 1/8 teaspoons instant yeast
  • 2 1/2 tablespoons Canola oil
  • 3/4 cups lukewarm water

Pour the water into a small bowl.  Add the yeast and stir until dissolved.  Let hang out for a few minutes.  Meanwhile, dump the flour, corn meal, sugar, and salt into a Kitchen Aid.  Attach the dough hook and mix until just combined.  Then add the oil and the water and yeast.  Mix on low for 4 minutes until the dough forms into a ball.  You might need to use a spatula to mix in any flour that attaches to the side of the bowl.  Let the dough rest for 15 minutes.  Then mix on low speed for another 3 minutes until the ball is smooth.   

Take a large bowl and pour about a tablespoon of oil.  Add the ball and coat the ball in the oil.  Cover with plastic wrap and set aside for 2 hours. 

Tomato Sauce

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  • One 14-ounce can crushed tomatoes (6 in 1 is what I used)
  • 3 cloves garlic, minced
  • 1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
  • 1/2 teaspoon dried basil
  • 1/2 teaspoon dried oregano
  • 1 tablespoon red wine vinegar
  • 1/2 teaspoon salt, or to taste

Mix everything together in a large bowl.  That's it. 

Construction:

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  • dough
  • fresh mozzarella cheese, thinly sliced
  • 1/4 cup Parmigiano-Reggiano, grated
  • 2 8-1/2-inch cake pans
  • butter

Preheat the oven to 400 degrees.  Place a baking stone on the middle rack.  Divide the dough into two balls. 

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Rub the cake pans with butter.

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Roll dough until it is about an inch wider than the cake pan. 

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Place the dough on top of the cake pan.  Press the dough into the corners and form some durable sides.  Prick the dough with a fork all over the bottom and also on the sides.  Place in the oven for 4 minutes.  If it bubbles up in the middle, that's okay.  Just poke again with a fork to get rid of the bubble.

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Add the cheese.  I'm not exactly sure about the amounts.  With dry mozzarella you want to completely cover the bottom.  But because fresh melts so much, you just want it to just about cover the whole bottom.  Covering it completely would be nearily impossible.  Place in the oven for 3 minutes. 

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Take the pie out and try to mop up some of the water with a paper towel. 

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It works surprisingly well.

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Pour in half of the sauce and add a great big sprinkling of parmesan.  Place back in the oven for about 15 minutes.  Rotate the pan 180 degrees, and cook for another 20-25 minutes.  The crust should be browned, but not black. 

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Remove the pizza and let rest for about 5 minutes.

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Use a fork to carefully pry the pizza out of the pan.  Set on a cutting board. 

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Cut the pizza into slice and serve.

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{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }

bristlesage April 3, 2009 at 12:18 pm

That homemade giardinera? Needs to go right on that pie (before you pop it in the oven). Oh, yum.

My favorite deep-dish is still sausage and fresh chopped garlic, but spinach-bacon-mushroom is a close second.

Nick Kindelsperger April 3, 2009 at 12:31 pm

bristlesage: Oh don't worry. I definitely added it after it came out of the oven. Next time I'll try putting it on before it goes in the oven. Great idea.

ChicagoKid April 3, 2009 at 3:49 pm

Congrats on a successful second batch! That pie looks gorgeous! I'm curious, will you be trying som Lou Malnati's to draw some comparison and some more insight?

Speaking with one of the owners of Lou's, even Chicago pizza techinically falls into different categories…
Giordano's = stuffed pizza in a pan
Lou's = Deep dish, thin bottom, high crust
Gino's = Cornmeal based crust, deep dish
etc.

I think you hit on the exact point in your finals closing words of your blog… it's really about comfort food and enjoying the pizza. As for achieving perfection, "One man's trash is another man's treasure." No such thing as perfection to all.

Let me know if you'd want the information on the potato crust… I'll find time to send you a copy of the dough recipe.

David April 3, 2009 at 3:56 pm

Hi Nick,

I'm not surprised that Peter Reinhart had the answer to your problem. I've never read American Pie but he has a great recipe for pizza napoletano in Bread Baker's Apprentice. I adapted his dough recipe and the broiler method from your site for a two-part post on my blog about pizza. (http://foodwithlegs.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/adventures-in-pizza-i-the-dough/)

Cheers,
-David

Moon April 3, 2009 at 9:02 pm

First off, you need to get one of those silicone cake pans. It makes it so much easier to get out of the pan.

Also, I believe Uno's uses about twice that amount of oil. It's a REALLY short dough.

Next, pin pricks in the crust. That's unnecessary. Also, baking the crust and taking it out – No.

Plus, the cheese on the bottom shouldn't be fresh mozzarella. It should be low-moisture sliced. That's where you are getting too much moisture. I do it a little differently than that, though. I use a layer of sliced provolone on the bottom, then a layer of onions, the tomatoes and spices, then a sprinkling of Monterrey Jack. Then a layer of pre-cooked sausage (again, trying to keep a lot of the moisture out). Finally a layer of mozzarella with oregano on top.

The biggest problem I have is that you don't have enough STUFF on it!!! The crust should be filled almost all the way to the top!!

Cameron April 4, 2009 at 12:43 am

A good read Nick! Never tried the authentic but this is giving me a taste to try Chicago style.

Uhhh Moon… he was only having a second attempt and finding his way with this sort of Pizza making. Perhaps you're getting a little excited with the (constructive?????) criticism given the early days of Nick's adventures in deep pan?

Cameron

ChicagoKid April 5, 2009 at 11:48 pm

Nick,

Wanted to give you a heads up that the current Bobby Flay throwdown is Bobby vs. Lou Malnati's in Chicago. If you get a chance to find the episode, you may get some good insight.

kristina April 6, 2009 at 11:41 am

you need more low moisture cheese. a lot more cheese. REALLY. just pile on the cheese. more than you think you need. you're supposed to be able to fill up on 1.5 slices. your pizza looks beautiful, but a little sad and slim. eating chicago style pizza is NOT supposed to keep you slim. :) i like that you tried to make the pizza pie again, but there's too much side crust exposed. add some cooked spinach (squeeze all the water out). will making this be possible, with your new kitchen?

kristina April 6, 2009 at 11:42 am

let me give you an idea of the cheese thickness: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2192/2098654847_78e11cd099.jpg.

Nick Kindelsperger April 6, 2009 at 12:47 pm

ChicagoKid: I'm definitely going to be hitting up Lou Malnati's to see how close I am. I'd love to see the potato crust recipe.

David: I need that cookbook. I'm really impressed with Peter Reinhart.

Moon: I agree that I don't have enough stuff on the pie. But I had absolutely no problem getting the pizza out of the pan. I also found the fresh mozzarella to be way better than the low moisture kind. But that's just me.

Nick Kindelsperger April 6, 2009 at 12:49 pm

ChicagoKid: I'll definitely check that out.

Kristina: I consciously used less cheese. I think I still have a little bit of New York pizza love trying to get out. Next time I'll jump in a little further.

Hillary April 6, 2009 at 3:37 pm

ChicagoKid, I definitely saw that episode of Throwdown last night! They filmed at the Lou Malnati's location right near my house! (So glad Lou's won by the way).

Great pizza Nick! I liked your first attempt but props for trying to perfect it! I personally enjoy this recipe as well: http://chewonthatblog.com/2009/02/09/step-by-step-homemade-chicago-style-pizza/

Dan April 19, 2009 at 8:53 pm

Was that a 28 oz can of tomatoes? Because I doubled some of your measures for my 28 oz can and my sauce was a little off. Crust was great though.

Nick Kindelsperger April 20, 2009 at 10:51 am

Dan: That’s a picture of a 28 ounce can, but the sauce is measured for a 14-ounce one. What kind of problems did you have? The sauce is a little thick and sweet for my tastes, but it works well in this deep-dish context.

Dan April 20, 2009 at 4:56 pm

The garlic in the sauce was a little overpowering. Maybe next time I’ll roast some garlic in the oven before adding it to the tomatoes. The crust can withstand some toppings for sure. I added some ground Italian sausage and some mushrooms. You can see my results at http://gallery.me.com/dan.wilson#100003/photo1240242916094
Thanks for the great guide!

Ed H April 28, 2009 at 12:17 pm

Sorry you had to learn the hard way, but Pequod’s is not traditional Chicago deep dish. It is one of my favorite pizzas though.
Pequod’s is more doughy; traditional deep dish is more like pie crust/biscuit.

You might have some luck reproducing your pizza if you consult the chicago style pizza forum over at pizzamaking.com.

One small hint… there is no corn meal in a deep dish pie. not even in gino’s east. They’re using a baker’s food coloring called yolkoline.

It seems like overkill to use fresh buffalo mozzarella in deep dish.

Mike May 20, 2009 at 8:10 pm

Dude yu suck!!!! AHAHAHAH You cookin it in butter? don’t you know about the smoking point?

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